Curse

own age myname · Feb 11, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I'm glad I didn't delete my Dervish. Sounds like a good update.

DiogoSilva · Feb 11, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Hey, Reaper, when you mean "attack skill spam", are you talking about the scythe-abusing one? If so, won't that disappear after this update? Assuming the tweaks to the scythes are relevant, with the possibility of the spammable attack skills, zealous vow and AoHM being changed, and the whole thing about needing to remove self-enchantments for new dervish skills to be effective (which I heard WS will have this at least), won't the whole "attack skill spam" as we know today simply disappear in this update? Thus, it wouldn't matter if the new dervishes end up not being strong enough to compete with that - because scythe warriors/ sins would get a nerf too.

BTW, the preview clearly stated that Avatar of Balthazar + Twin Moon Slash would net "half" of the adrenaline required to recharge it again. That would be 3,5. I'll assume it is 4, with AoB either giving double adrenaline or +1 extra for each hit. Which means, once you get the first few adrenaline streaks, you should be able to mantain high adrenaline consistently thanks to Twin Moon Slash. And two normal attacks, which should be fast enough with a IAS, or one TMS, and you can use aura slicer.

EDIT: If the AoE effect of the scythe is still there, in PvE, you would get about 6 adrenaline per attack against a mob, so after the initial attack you would spam TMS and others extremely easy. AoB + AoE Scythe just seems so good for PvE. Perhaps not as damaging as HB assuming both cases would be powered up by Necros/ melee buffers, but spamming SY would be easier with a dervish.

JSX · Feb 11, 2011, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I wonder how this new stuff will effect pvp.

I really hope none of the new derv stuff is gonna be taken up by other primaries and then abused to the point where a derv primary is not needed or it being nerfed to shit. Hope TK paid attention to that...

I also really really hope they tie a lot of the good stuff to mysticism...and have better elites .. getting sick of running WS/RS mostly...

Yol · Feb 11, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I've had a dervish since NF was released, and while I've enjoyed playing on that character I never really felt happy with any of the builds available or skill combos at my disposal. I recently started playing her again with a load of warrior adrenal skills and found it to work well, so I'm looking forward to the adrenal changes being proposed for dervs.

reaper with no name · Feb 11, 2011, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

Hey, Reaper, when you mean "attack skill spam", are you talking about the scythe-abusing one? If so, won't that disappear after this update? Assuming the tweaks to the scythes are relevant, with the possibility of the spammable attack skills, zealous vow and AoHM being changed, and the whole thing about needing to remove self-enchantments for new dervish skills to be effective (which I heard WS will have this at least), won't the whole "attack skill spam" as we know today simply disappear in this update? Thus, it wouldn't matter if the new dervishes end up not being strong enough to compete with that - because scythe warriors/ sins would get a nerf too.

BTW, the preview clearly stated that Avatar of Balthazar + Twin Moon Slash would net "half" of the adrenaline required to recharge it again. That would be 3,5. I'll assume it is 4, with AoB either giving double adrenaline or +1 extra for each hit. Which means, once you get the first few adrenaline streaks, you should be able to mantain high adrenaline consistently thanks to Twin Moon Slash. And two normal attacks, which should be fast enough with a IAS, or one TMS, and you can use aura slicer.

EDIT: If the AoE effect of the scythe is still there, in PvE, you would get about 6 adrenaline per attack against a mob, so after the initial attack you would spam TMS and others extremely easy. AoB + AoE Scythe just seems so good for PvE. Perhaps not as damaging as HB assuming both cases would be powered up by Necros/ melee buffers, but spamming SY would be easier with a dervish.

There is nothing in the preview to suggest that attack skill spam is being changed. I will say no more on that front at this time.

By the time you get enough adrenaline for that AoB+TMS combo to work, the enemy would already have been killed by a normal scythe build. And even after that, it's not really impressive.

Also, you're assuming that the recharge time of flash enchantments will be low enough for TMS to be used somewhat consistently. Where did you get that silly idea? I see nothing indicating that in the preview. In fact, the preview implies the opposite.

Ghost Dog · Feb 11, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18

"To realize these goals, we altered over 90% of the Dervish skills in the game"

Maybe some of you will finally seal your mouths about the derv update taking too long.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 11, 2011, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

What? Eles barely have anything that improves their casting time. The only two that they have are Glyph of Sacrifice and Glyph of Essence, and both of those have severe penalties attached to them.

And most of their skills are anything but balanced for their long cast time.

1) I never said there were good ways, just that there were ways (not to mention that for the reason of bringing it up, there are very few enchantments needing it).

2) I was mainly meaning in regards to energy - most professions have energy based balances, but that's less of an issue for eles due to their large amount of energy allowed, so the "drawbacks" given to their skills are primarily in the line of exhaustion and casting time. Where for others, its 10 and 15e skills.

But that's still besides the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Did I just miss something?

So, after the update...will Warriors/Sin/other still be better than Dervish at using scythes and doing scythe spikes? That's what I want answered first! All these updates looks like they will help Dervish a lot with extra damage, but if it helps all other professions equally well, then Dervish will again get the back-seat. Weren't they going to tie the number of scythe hits with Mysticism? Seriously, ANET WTF....please give scythes more meaningful roles when used from a Dervish's perspecitive (who has been trained specifically for it) compared to some other profession Dervish-wannabe.

Rest of the updates look promising.

/End rant.

The update is supposed to fix the issue of other professions using scythes better than Dervishes.

But knowing the community, there may still be a build or two which is better after a couple weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Ohey, it's the same stuff I saw in August in the TK notes that were leaked.

Wait....why did this take so long then?

It isn't the same stuff. You barely saw anything in the preview, just general concepts.

There's been changes internally the entire time.

Not to mention actual testing the skills rather than "here lets see if these work" which is likely what you saw in your illegal leak.

Killed u man · Feb 11, 2011, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

"To realize these goals, we altered over 90% of the Dervish skills in the game"

Maybe some of you will finally seal your mouths about the derv update taking too long.

I'm not bashing the update, as I'm definatly looking forward to it, but: intire games have been made in a year.

Heck, you shouldn't even count a year. The last REAL update was probably the addition of Hard Mode, or GWEN, so that's almost 3 year.

3 Years to pump out 1 profession isn't spectacular.

instanceskiller · Feb 11, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

"To realize these goals, we altered over 90% of the Dervish skills in the game"

Maybe some of you will finally seal your mouths about the derv update taking too long.

I really do like what I've seen in the skill preview. After this post I don't think I will complain about the derv update taking too long anymore as it looks to be soon out. However, it has taken nearly a year to come out and lots of things can change in a year. For me anyways, lots of things have changed which really limits the time I can play on guild wars to almost non-existant. I would have probably been more happy if instead of 90% of skills, it was only say 25%? At least then it may have had a chance to have come out last year and I would have had a bit more time than now to play on my neglected dervish. I'm happy though that this can breathe new life into guild wars by apparently adding a new proffession to the mix and hope others enjoy it. I will be shutting up about the dervish update taking so long now but not because of the scope.

I understand when John Stumme said he wanted to give people things to look forward to, but it is really hard to look forward to things when you are not given an estimation of how long you have to wait to look forward to something. I hope that in the next such large update they tell fans not to expect if for at least half a year or something similar. That can save a lot of QQ.

Karate Jesus · Feb 12, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

There's been changes internally the entire time.

Not to mention actual testing the skills rather than "here lets see if these work" which is likely what you saw in your illegal leak.

Well, I assume there were internal changes. The concepts were just the same.

Glad to hear about this regardless. Also, John has said that they're going to look into updating the stale meta after the Embark Beach update, which has me excited.

He's doing great stuff. I love that he actually responds to his wiki page and is lighthearted about it. He's doing a better community relations job than the community relations team o.0

Owik Gall · Feb 12, 2011, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I have a near good feeling this will replace the SY warriors. :/ Anyways, this looks good. Could give me a reason to dust off MOX and make a holy crusade hero team.

Karate Jesus · Feb 12, 2011, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

I have a near good feeling this will replace the SY warriors. :/ Anyways, this looks good. Could give me a reason to dust off MOX and make a holy crusade hero team.

Can you imagine after 7 heroes? Paragon/Dervish/Rit teams will just rape everything.

Cuilan · Feb 12, 2011, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

I have a near good feeling this will replace the SY warriors.

I don't see how. It's not like it'll suddenly be where you shouldn't bring SY on a warrior.

X Dr Pepper X · Feb 12, 2011, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Hmm, this is all extremely impressive.

Many are losing faith with the TK and the Live team. This is their redemption.

I hope we can enjoy this amount of sheer effort to the rehauls of other classes in the game. Paragons, Rangers, and Eles need work.

Adequate information and speed would be nice this time.

Karate Jesus · Feb 12, 2011, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

I hope we can enjoy this amount of sheer effort to the rehauls of other classes in the game. Paragons, Rangers, and Eles need work.

John said they're not doing another update this massive. The rest will be smaller.

However, he just said on his wiki page that they talked about eles today. Hopefully that means improving their shittiness.

Horus Moonlight · Feb 12, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

No it means nerfing ER. Lol get owned even more eles.

mage767 · Feb 12, 2011, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Things I would like to see:

1. Dervish is truly the best scythe damage dealer in the game. Period. No other profession should even come close (sins/wars etc).

2. Dervish is no longer a squishy front-liner. All these updates will certainly allow it do more damage. In addition, they must have effective blocking skills (since existing ones may be changed), and must gain more armor (via alternative skills).

3. Dervish avatars should be insta-cast, AND insta-end. I don't want to be interrupted while my avatar is changing back to human.

4. Dervish must have some *cool* skills which paralyze enemies in battle, like the following:
(a) Fear and terror (makes enemies unable to attack/cast effectively for a while within close range to the Dervish)
(b) Life reaping (convert kills to health)
(c) Energy draining (converts criticals to energy gains)
(d) Perma-banning! (ok, this one is a joke)

All the above skills tied to Mysticism, so that sins don't abuse them.

Del · Feb 12, 2011, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

4. Dervish must have some *cool* skills which paralyze enemies in battle, like the following:
(a) Fear and terror (makes enemies unable to attack/cast effectively for a while within close range to the Dervish)
(b) Life reaping (convert kills to health)
(c) Energy draining (converts criticals to energy gains)
(d) Perma-banning! (ok, this one is a joke)

All the above skills tied to Mysticism, so that sins don't abuse them.

No. Just. No.

ruk1a · Feb 12, 2011, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

4. Dervish must have some *cool* skills which paralyze enemies in battle, like the following:
(a) Fear and terror (makes enemies unable to attack/cast effectively for a while within close range to the Dervish)
(b) Life reaping (convert kills to health)
(c) Energy draining (converts criticals to energy gains)
(d) Perma-banning! (ok, this one is a joke)

All the above skills tied to Mysticism, so that sins don't abuse them.

No. go back to WoW.

Yojimaru · Feb 12, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Things I would like to see:

1. Dervish is truly the best scythe damage dealer in the game. Period. No other profession should even come close (sins/wars etc).

The only way that can happen is if they change Mysticism so that it actually contributes to damage like Strength and Critical Strikes does (or nerf the hell out of said lines, making their respective classes worthless), make all scythe attacks rely on flash enchantments (which doesn't really affect warriors that much since they have a few melee attacks with somewhat similar damage/recharge time.) or tie the number of targets hit into Mysticism, which I think is retarded since you usually have to abuse bad pathing to get 3 targets in the attack radius anyways, and this isn't even counting HM where the squishy targets you want to kill first run around like chickens with their heads cut off.